Why NOT to marry for some?

[Mifletz]

What' the informed opinion of this letter doing the rounds?

"Something is awry in this generation.

Part of it is the loss of the feminine mystique and the rise of female assertiveness: “The -rd has created new thing in the Earth - a woman will surround a man!” (Yirmiya 31).

Plus rise in zivug-less souls, male souls being reincarnated in female bodies, and vice versa!: “Mrs Thatcher is the best man in Britain” and “Golda Meir is the best man in my cabinet” may have been truisms! See “Kabbalistic Writings on the Nature of Masculine and Feminine” Sarah Schneider 2001.

Plus the havoc wrought on female reproductive physiology and psychology by the effects of hormones in animal, dairy and cosmetic products.

Plus the disastrous feminist movement, the female takeover of the workplace, and the raising of whole generation of womanhood on a non-stop diet of TV soap operas and their dreadful female role models as depicted in “Dallas”, “Dynasty”, “The Bitch”, “East Enders” etc, whose frighteningly uninhibited histrionics and unattractive mannerisms even young girls ape to perfection!

Sociologists believe that the nuclear family may be heading for extinction. Even among the Orthodox there is burgeoning group of jewish women over 30 who are resisting massive peer pressure to marry. Many of them openly reject the blessing “who has not made me a woman”, because it implies that it is “better” to be a man, which is indeed the Torah’s stance.

With the divorce rate in the West being 60%, and even amongst the Orthodox 5-10%, many men are petrified of potential divorce litigation, ruination of mental health, reputation, finance, alimony, palimony, having to pay child-support for decades, terror of spurious marital violence, marital rape raps and molestation charges for merely changing his own child’ nappies etc etc.

They view Jewish Marriage not just as an act of mesirus nefesh, but even as one of sakonos nefashos. So much risk of sakonoh that some say that Halachic case could be made that in this weakened generation, the commandment to be fruitful and multiply is overridden!

Little wonder that der cheshek ist gefallen – with many feeling no particular desire or need for Jewish Marriage, intimate relations, partner hood, company, child raising etc

There have been not few cases amongst Hareidim recently where the same rabbi who arranged the Jewish Marriage kesubah, was arranging the divorce get the very first thing next morning! “Better to be alone than unhappy!” is the refrain of a popular song.

"Ben David will not come until every soul has been placed in body" (Yevamos 62). If that finite number of souls is now drawing to a close, many maybe not required to procreate, and in a sense Heaven may be sparing them from modern Jewish Marriage, childrearing, divorce etc, which for them would be a disastrous ruination!"

'm not very impressed with this letter. It is not well written and doesn't seem to take any coherent position. Opinions are presented as factual. The target audience may take offense to some statements, and 'm not sure they will get the point the author is trying to impress.
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Originally Posted by Mifletz

What' the informed opinion of this letter doing the rounds?

"Something is awry in this generation.

Part of it is the loss of the feminine mystique and the rise of female assertiveness: “The -rd has created new thing in the Earth - a woman will surround a man!” (Yirmiya 31).

Plus rise in zivug-less souls, male souls being reincarnated in female bodies, and vice versa!: “Mrs Thatcher is the best man in Britain” and “Golda Meir is the best man in my cabinet” may have been truisms! See “Kabbalistic Writings on the Nature of Masculine and Feminine” Sarah Schneider 2001.

Plus the havoc wrought on female reproductive physiology and psychology by the effects of hormones in animal, dairy and cosmetic products.

Plus the disastrous feminist movement, the female takeover of the workplace, and the raising of whole generation of womanhood on a non-stop diet of TV soap operas and their dreadful female role s as depicted in “Dallas”, “Dynasty”, “The Bitch”, “East Enders” etc, whose frighteningly uninhibited histrionics and unattractive mannerisms even young s ape to perfection!

Sociologists believe that the nuclear family may be heading for extinction. Even among the Orthodox there is burgeoning group of jewish women over 30 who are resisting massive peer pressure to marry. Many of them openly reject the blessing “who has not made me a woman”, because it implies that it is “better” to be a man, which is indeed the Torah’s stance.

With the divorce rate in the West being 60%, and even amongst the Orthodox 5-10%, many men are petrified of potential divorce litigation, ruination of mental health, reputation, finance, alimony, palimony, having to pay child-support for decades, of spurious marital , marital raps and molestation charges for merely changing his own child’ nappies etc etc.

They view Jewish Marriage not just as an act of mesirus nefesh, but even as one of sakonos nefashos. So much risk of sakonoh that some say that Halachic case could be made that in this weakened generation, the commandment to be fruitful and multiply is overridden!

Little wonder that der cheshek ist gefallen – with many feeling no particular desire or need for Jewish Marriage, intimate relations, partner hood, company, child raising etc

There have been not few cases amongst Hareidim recently where the same rabbi who arranged the Jewish Marriage kesubah, was arranging the divorce get the very first thing next morning! “Better to be alone than unhappy!” is the refrain of a popular song.

"Ben David will not come until every soul has been placed in body" (Yevamos 62). If that finite number of souls is now drawing to a close, many maybe not required to procreate, and in a sense Heaven may be sparing them from modern Jewish Marriage, childrearing, divorce etc, which for them would be a disastrous ruination!"

[sspiegler]

>Part of it is the loss of the feminine mystique and the rise of female >assertiveness: “The -rd has created new thing in the Earth - a woman will >surround a man!” (Yirmiya 31)

Gosh, can't tell you how many jewish women 've dated who have no idea how to act with a man. In fact, as you say later on, many of them act more like a man than like a woman! It's very discouraging to have those experiences, and someone should coach them that it is a real turn off for a man to experience that.

have found ny jewish women particularly guilty of these accusations. have dated too many tough, demanding and opportunistic jewish women in ny. Somehow, find out of town jewish women generally softer, more sensitive and more appreciative.

Frankly, don't see much reason for optimism in the Jewish Dating world. People' expectations are so far out of line. People don't know how to treat eachother with respect. And, people don't make an honest assesment of their limitations and less appealing qualities and simultaneously expect only the best of the best in the people they date. Sad.

-Scott

There are so many things wrong with this letter. First of all, is the author actually tryin to assert that modern dairy products inhibit female reproductive ability? This rediculous assertion colors the tone of this whole letter.

Second, the halacha that requires men to fulfill peru urvu, and jewish women, lasheves yetzara, can never be abrogated. And your argument of "ad sheyichle kol haneshamos min hagoof" is faulty and childish. The very fact that mashiach is not here yet proves that we are not done bringing all the neshamos down yet. We cannot stop now, and this letter irresponsibly infers that we can.

Thrid, can't believe that another Jew could make such silly argument as this letter did. The fact that there are negative female role-models in today's modern culture is certinly no argument against Jewish Marriage. Au contraire, this negative role-modeling is precisely a reason that Jewish Young jewish women should be out there, becoming positive role-models for themselves, their peers, and the world in large. We as Jews are meant to change the world, not be changed by it!

Lastly, can only say that this letter is an unsupported, badly-written, and unconvincing attempt to give Jewish Singles the feeling that they are OK where they are, and that there is no reason for them to fix their situation in life. The fact is that there are plenty of "basherts" out there, for everyone, and we must work on ourselves and keep plugging away with hishtadlut, until we find one.

With the blessing of Torah, prayer for us all, and yearning for the Geula,

mevaseretzion

The jewish women' lib movement has had an adverse effect on the family. On the other hand when people say, Maggy Thatcher is the best man for the job, wish they would bring her back, because she would get rid of the arabs in Britain. She fought not to let them in. Its not only a problem of masculine jewish women, there is a problem of effeminate men. Look at Tony Blair for instance, he was the one who fought to let the arabs into Britain

There is great emphasis placed on how evil jewish women's lib is, but what about the homo-lesbian movement. There are unfortunately homo-lesbian Jews.

am haredi divorce lawyer and have seen how many jewish women suffer at the hands of their husbands. If someone is in an abusive husband it is hell. agree with the statement that it is better to be alone than unhappily married. The main purpose of Jewish Marriage is to have children, and obviously the best state is a happy Jewish Marriage, but if one cannot find a suitable Jewish Marriage partner then if were in that position, which BH am not, would foster or adopt as a Jewish Single parent or if was not religious would have a child via artificial insemination.

BH am widow with two wonderful sons aged 23 and 21 born in wedlock and a foster child aged 5 who fostered as a widow

would like to remarry, but will not rush to marry a disfunctional psychologically challenged man with baggage, for the sake of being married. It is preferable to be happily unmarried that unhappily married. Loneliness is not great but at least you know who you are coming home to and what the atmosphere is going to be like at home when you get there.

B"H

After reading the original posting, get the feeling that the author is putting most of the blame with the jewish women. But as 54 year old man with 6 children and more grandchildren, looking for his second Ziwwug, would like to offer a somewhat different perspective.

It may be true that jewish women today have greater expectations. They are not apparently quite the same as the jewish women whom Haza" knew in their day and for whom "Tav Le-meitav Tan Du Mile-meitav Armalu" (better to sit two together than to sit widow) was the guiding wisdom.

More than once have come out of encounters in which the jewish girl has had nice things to say about me but just doesn't see it as Jewish Marriage. don't always follow the reasons she gives. Often it has something intangible to do with her sensitivity, but hearing things like this over and over again from Jewish Single, never married jewish women in their 40's who still want children makes me wonder whether there isn't something more fundamental at work here.

On the other hand, it would be grossly unfair to blame the jewish women alone. Ours, the "me" generation, is plagued by an unrelenting, mobile pace of life that imposes on us insatiable demands for instant gratification. (Remember the old joke about the thieves who stole the computer and lost out because it was obsolete before they had time to sell it?) Previous generations didn't have Internet, cellular phones or SMS but were more content than we are. We go crazy today when the computer hangs or when the Internet line goes down. These things are new enough that studies are still being conducted to find out just how much they harm relationships. It is not surprising that both men and jewish women find it hard to make and keep long term commitments with such mindset.

What is the solution?

It would be more than little trite just to repeat the advice 've seen so often, to give up our unrealistic expectations. To do this in deed and not just in thought, however, requires more than a little reshaping of our thinking patterns.

As first step, perhaps may offer what Haza" said that someone who has Torah but not charitable deeds has no real G-d. In other words, what gives us our real, lasting worth is not what we know and achieve for ourselves, but how much we apply it for the benefit of others. It is the Jewish Marriage relationship which gives man and woman the opportunity to develop their potential for caring and accomodating to the fullest. Having someone else in one's life, day and night, whose needs must be considered in every situation, is what makes us full human beings. This is perhaps what Haza" had in mind when they said that one who has no wife is not a man, citing the verse (Gen. 5:2) "Male and female He created them, and he Blessed them, and he called their name Adam (Man) on the day they were created".

It goes without saying that to carry this out in practice, we will have to make sacrifices and forego some of our own preferences and desires. After Jewish Marriage we are no longer free to do what we want on the spur of the moment. In order to succeed we must make space in our hearts and our schedules for someone else. There is no denying that in getting married we lose our independence. But in return, we get the satisfaction of loving and caring for another human being which only Jewish Marriage can give us.

will not deny also that several times have felt most anxious just when the jewish girl expresses some initial enthusiasm. Some inner voice asks me, "Is this the woman you want to spend the rest of your life with?” will never forget that before my first Jewish Marriage, my Rav saw me once and remarked, “You look frightened”. He was right, and true to fact, all my fears and many more came true in my Jewish Marriage. For a sensitive individual as myself, it was admittedly rather traumatic. But this is no reason to avoid Jewish Marriage, even for the older people among us who see more than the young and have more to be afraid of. The only way to deal with such fears is to be brave and confront them. No Jewish Marriage is without its hurts and tears. Even the most loving of couples will occasionally hurt each other inadvertently. But it is the giving, forgiving and making up afterwards that makes it all worthwhile and enables us to grow.

In closing, last week’ Parasha gives us an indirect but very pertinent message about one’s Ziwwug. For Haza” said that one’s Ziwwug is as difficult as the splitting of the Yam Suf (“Red Sea”). Just before Benei Yisrael went into the sea, we read that G-d told Moshe Rabbeinu (Ex. 14:15), “… What are you shouting to me? Speak to Benei Yisrael and they will go on.” Rashi comments that Moshe was engaged at the moment in prayer and that G-d told him that this was not a time for prayer but action. The Midrash tells us that of the tribe of Yehuda earned the kingship in reward for being the first to jump into the sea while all the tribes were arguing over who would be the first to go down. The message, submit, is rather clear. Just as in the Exodus, we all have our Yam Suf to cross in our lives in order to get and stay married. While faith and prayer obviously have their important place, it is nevertheless only through our own positive actions, by confronting the real hazards and obstacles in our way, that we can achieve the objective of a loving and lasting Jewish Marriage.

May G-d help each and every one of us in giving us the courage to find our Ziwwug and realize our potential in this world to the fullest. Omen!

Shaul

[Mifletz]

Actually, the growth hormones in dairy and food products, and poultry too, is having an effect. Girls are now becoming pubescent and starting their menses as young as 8! It used to be 13-16. This must have psycholgical effects as well. In England it was legal to marry 12 year old jewish girl until 1923. believe this is also as it was in the days of the Tenach. Maybe one day it will be again!